Member Directory, Profiles
Summary
- There are 14 posts — by 6 authors — in this topic.
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Posts with files From File Date John S Veitch 2007 Mar 13 07:29 UTC - Latest post made by Michael JasonSmith at 2007 Mar 21 01:55 UTC
Let me Line up with Steve here: Steve wrote: >> My goal is to encourage peer-to-peer exchange and >> greater member trust through "who is this" disclosure. One of the keys to Internet literacy is the behaviour of "joining online groups." I know from my door to door research that most people do not join ANY online groups. In my view the key reason for the failure of the Internet to produce significant change in our community in the last 10 years is the lack of peer to peer exchange that joining online groups would make possible. People don't join lists, and people dont' join social networks. There are the keys to developing you personal Internet Literacy. Once you become a member of peer to peer networks anything you need to learn becomes something other people can teach you. Besides other members by their interest and communication make you aware of things you are not familiar with and so they extend your range of interests and learning. I can't stress strongly enough the importance of online groups, peer to peer networks of all kinds. In the area of both social networks and knowledge management there is a common lesson. When people I know and respect have a personal point of view, even if I'm not comfortable about it, I will give it consideration. If I think my friend is wrong or mistaken, I will find a way to communicate that message, probably privately, to protect my friends interest. Trust is developed on line primarily by the mutual experience of people being trustworthy. Steve makes the point about "who is" disclosure. In the places I like to work people normally use their real names. That creates a level of trust, although it's sometimes abused by people who create false identities. Social networks all have a "homepage" where the "who is" information is disclosed. If that detail is missing other users are often unwilling to engage with that person. http://www.ate.co.nz/internet/informationliteracy.html >> Member Directory It's my experience that people on lists can always get a full list of all members, names and email addresses. This information is only available to "members" and in my own case I often use the full list of members to see who else is "present" but not participating. For instance I'm on the Community Informatics List out of the University of Vancouver. I last accessed the membership of that list to find our the addresses of all New Zealand members so that I could write to each of them on a related but off list topic. I can appreciate why people might not want this information to be available. It's a potential source of spam, but unlikely I think. >> Profiles I think I've already dealt with profiles regarding "who is". On the internet each of needs to develop a way of communicating who we are to other people, of talking about ourselves in an open way that is meaningful and useful to others. This seems to be an easy thing to do, but it's no so easy to do it well. After two or three years of practice most people seem to discover a way to do this that works for them. Look at any social network and see how many almost blank Homepages there are. When faced with the question "Who are you?" most people in the beginning have not idea what to say. That's something we all need to learn. Part of becoming Internet Literate. http://www.ryze.com/go/johnsveitch >> ...how can we encourage cross-community knowledge exchange? I think the key to encouraging cross-community knowledge exchange is to demonstrate to businesses, non-profit organisations and governments, that global engagement is critical to our future. Critical to each of us as individuals, to each of us as community members, and critical to the nation as a whole. Social engagement precedes meaningful dialogue. You can go to the web and get documentation, usually dry meaningless stuff. When you get detail on the same topic from someone you know, something selected for you, and perhaps written for you, there is a much deeper level of communication. http://www.ate.co.nz/global/
john -- John Stephen Veitch http://www.ate.co.nz Should we be talking? Can I help? Google me My personal Invitation to join Viadeo in English http://www.viadeo.com/personalinvite/00212an77pm0o5o1
The following file was added to this topic:
To summarise, Steve, John, Michael and I all want to encourage knowledge-sharing. (I am sure that many other OGN Admins, do too). We know that you can't make people collaborate. What we can do is create conditions that are conducive to collaboration. I agree with Michael that the best way to do that is to make it easy for the users to accomplish their task. I add that this is only worth doing where online collaboration is feasible. If you have enough users who are motivated to participate (get prestige, and get answers to their questions), in the particular way that will achieve the owner's goal, then you have a feasible group. As an advocate of collaboration in all forms, I find this hard to accept. However, as I reflect on the face to face group leadership I have done, this frustration is familiar. Even with the richest of synchronous communication media, all you can do is create opportunities for people to act on their motivations, in ways that further the agreed group purpose. Sometimes in interface design, we do deliberately get in the way of people achieving their task. Sometimes we do it to show people how they can get their task done even better than they though they could. For example, in OGN, we make people click "add to topic" or "create a topic", before they can post. At other times, we do it for security reasons (eg making people verify their membership). Getting in the way of people achieving their task can be extremely expensive in terms of fostering collaboration, as it is much easier to discourage, than to encourage, collaboration. At OGN, we carefully evaluate the benefits of features that limit usability before designing them. Steve and John, we do care about your goals as site administrators. We care about the tasks of your users more, because there are more of them than you. And because we know that making their tasks easier will achieve your goals. In fact, none of us in this group really know what the actual users' tasks are. The only way to find that out is directly from users. So we are all restricted to speculation. Our invitation to you in this group is to join us in that speculation, hence our mantra "what is the user's task?".
Dan
Michael said: Member Directory An interesting feature, but I cannot clearly see your task. The main reason I can think of is to transfer the data out of the system without the users' permission, which would be a violation of the users' privacy. My response: This is a logical extension of your existing members list feature. Why have a public list for members in the first place? You've already chosen to display the list publicly for those not logged in while requiring logged in membership to view a profile. Obviously in a small group, folks probably know each other, but in a larger group names don't say enough. This is particularly true for international communities of practice. So with my Consult and Research public groups at http://groups.dowire.org my goal is to foster peer-to-peer exchange via the forum. Knowing "who's who" helps motivate potential posters to realize that the group matters. With online groups where people are paid/obligated to participate being motivated wouldn't be as much of a user task, but when you have volunteers, as a host you need to use tools creatively. Practically speaking, I was showing GroupServer/OGN to someone high up at Ashoka trying to pitch the idea that they could use the tool (I am one of a 1700 or so fellows around the world, 70 in the U.S.) and we could encourage its use in the projects of fellow. When I showed her the Members page, she said who are these people? I explained my idea for allowing people to *optionally* list additional information they share in their profile. Her reaction was why doesn't it do that already? As long as people are opting in to share information publicly and are informed of that, to display it isn't a violation of privacy. You might decide that publicity or public disclosure for those not logged in/Google is not in your interest so it might make sense to close the Members list to non-members or only display the columns when logged in. Steven Clift P.S. If GroupServer admin or team is a better place to outline better developed feature ideas let me know. As many of you know we have a laundry list of ideas - http://www.e-democracy.org/wiki/Groupserver_feature_ideas - many of which have already been incorporated into OGN and hopefully the next GPL release of GroupServer. Some ideas might be core feature ideas that help make OGN more competitive and you'll jump on them as your capacity allows and MOST are probably something that need to be funded by someone. Say, did you see this ... nice kudos for your efforts from Nancy White, the goddess of online communities: http://www.fullcirc.com/weblog/2007/03/steven-clifts-notes-saving-internet-10.htm
On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 03:45 +1300, Steven Clift wrote: > This is a logical extension of your existing members list feature. Why have a public > list for members in the first place? You've already chosen to display the list publicly > for those not logged in while requiring logged in membership to view a profile. I agree. If members have filled in something in their profile, and they have been told it will be publicly available, they have given permission for it to be displayed in anyway we wish. It is our responsibility to ensure that they have been informed of this, but I certainly agree in principle. > P.S. If GroupServer admin or team is a better place to outline better > developed GroupServer Team is a better place for these discussions. We are starting to get a fairly long way away from the primary purpose of the group.
--Richard
On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 03:45 +1300, Steven Clift wrote: > This is a logical extension of your existing members list feature. Why have a public > list for members in the first place? You've already chosen to display the list publicly > for those not logged in while requiring logged in membership to view a profile. I agree. If members have filled in something in their profile, and they have been told it will be publicly available, they have given permission for it to be displayed in anyway we wish. It is our responsibility to ensure that they have been informed of this, but I certainly agree in principle. > P.S. If GroupServer admin or team is a better place to outline better > developed GroupServer Team is a better place for these discussions. We are starting to get a fairly long way away from the primary purpose of the group.
--Richard
On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 03:45 +1300, Steven Clift wrote: > If GroupServer admin or team is a better place to outline better > developed feature ideas let me know. Actually, we really should have a public GroupServer Development group. Starting groups is quick and easy with OnlineGroups.Net: http://groupserver.org/groups/development Come, join us there for more discussions about the development of GroupServer, the open-source system that runs OnlineGroups.Net.
-- Michael JasonSmith http://onlinegroups.net/ Usability Engineer
On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 03:45 +1300, Steven Clift wrote: > If GroupServer admin or team is a better place to outline better > developed feature ideas let me know. Actually, we really should have a public GroupServer Development group. Starting groups is quick and easy with OnlineGroups.Net: http://groupserver.org/groups/development Come, join us there for more discussions about the development of GroupServer, the open-source system that runs OnlineGroups.Net.
-- Michael JasonSmith http://onlinegroups.net/ Usability Engineer
There are many valid points made in this thread, which I will post here at the end of the thread rather that at the start of the groupserver.org group thread as suggested by Michael. In relation to the thread topic, member directory profiles, the most difficult area to overcome is the extreme reluctance of members of the public (especially Australians) to submit profile information when they have very little, if any, control over what happens to that information. This reluctance is continually reinforced by the high profile of stories of the misuse of information on the Internet. Children and young adolescents in particularly are told repeatedly never to provide personal information which enables them to be identified and for personal contact to be made due to the dangers of pedophilia. Members of the public are continually warned of the dangers of submitting information through phishing emails in particular, but few understand the basis of a phishing emails. Anyone who uses an email address on the Internet for a longer period of time knows how much spam it attracts without understanding why. Thus the biggest difficulty as I see it is not the technical details of how information is sought, but the negativity towards submitting any profile information at all. People feel more comfortable in associating and submitting information to others whom they know. In online groups, they become comfortable by viewing and being associated with the posts, more so than the information in profiles. The points raised by Steven are valid. Online groups would function better if users could associate in compatible like minded groups in which all members felt comfortable to contribute. Profiles and key words do help in this direction, but the tone of postings is far more important. Thus the most important aspect of member profiles as I see it is to increase the comfort level of those who are considering submitting their information. A start is clear policy guidelines of how the information is to used. More important is confidence in the organization to whom you are submitting the information, from knowledge and a profile of the organization. Regards Richard Solly http://eforum.darebin.vic.gov.au/
I understand that you'll be looking into updating the "Members" section of OGN/GroupServer groups. I thought I'd share a few of my ideas coming mostly out of my http://forums.dowire.org site experience. I've pitched the member profile area as a "who's who" directory on e-democracy and through my custom site added a number of profile fields (too many really) as part of sign-up process. My goal is to encourage peer-to-peer exchange and greater member trust through "who is this" disclosure. * Member Directory When I've shown DoWire Groups to others who might be interested in online communities of practice, I explain that unlike simple e-mail lists, here we have a great member directory. Looking at a simple list of names, they turn to me a say who are these people, what good is this? I say it is better than a list of e-mail addresses. :-) I'd like to see a web admin tool that allows a group manager to select which profile fields to display with the index of members and to allow the columns to be sorted up and down alphabetically: First Last Name Title Organisation City Country The most useful for me would be to see the member list sorted by organization and country. Down the road, a member directory keyword search to find someone interested in X topic from a list of 700 members might be useful. * Profiles I'll save detailed comments for later, but in brief: 1. Photo cropping - I don't like how we stretch images (could just be a DoWire Groups thing) to fit the box. Also, competition wise GoogleGroups has a nifty photo cropping tool. I don't expect that, but perhaps we can show a sample image size allowed in the upload process and auto-resize any standard 4:3 uncropped photo from a digital camera. 2. Two column display? I really like how the profiles display the recent posts from a member that are public or you have access to. Perhaps they could go on the top right so they are more visible. 3. Clickable links in profile fields - We have this at E-Democracy.Org, I recommend this for OGN as a whole. 4. Enhanced request contact - At E-Democracy.Org someone recently pointed out that if you are a web/digest participant you don't have the same rights or ability of a full-text e-mail person to reply privately. Private replies are a big part of our Issues Forum model. E-Democracy.Org paid for a custom "request contact" feature that sends a simple standard e-mail that say, X person wants to communicate with you. Since you must be logged in and verified to do this, I think adding a short one or two line form for a requesters comment makes sense. Or at a minimum I'd like to see a pull down list of options like "I would like to reply privately to a post you made." If open, an anti-abuse/limit to liability policy would need to be listed since the private communication would go via our server. The key is the fundamental principle of GroupServer which is equity regardless of how you prefer to participate - e-mail or web and currently web users do not have the same private communication abilities. 5. Keyword Interests Checklist - Imagine 100 local Issues Forums with 30,000 active citizens - how can we encourage cross-community knowledge exchange? I have ideas for a future feature we'll have to find funding for that I'd like to call "Q&A Exchange" where members of http://forums.e-democracy.org could check a list of keywords they are interested in (in our case typical local livability issues like recycling, graffiti, traffic, etc.) through their profile. People would opt-in to receiving and hopefully responding to public questions sent to the organic keyword grouping (not a traditional or permanent online group) Then using a web form folks can ask questions to certain keyword groups, an e-mail is sent, and public responses gathered via the web and e-mailed to all in a digest after X amount of time. I assume this unique feature would require some decent funding, anyone want to chip in? E-mail me: <email obscured> Cheers, Steven Clift DoWire.Org E-Democracy.Org
> My goal is to encourage peer-to-peer exchange and > greater member trust through "who is this" disclosure. The the user's goal is more important than your goal, Steve. I *want* OGN Admins to act as a forum where administrators help each other out; it is mainly a place for OnlineGroups.Net to communicate its goals and plans to a specialised subset of users :) The best thing anyone can do for a design is think about the user's task. In your case, the user does not have a goal of being trusted, even though we know that trust is a good thing. > Member Directory An interesting feature, but I cannot clearly see your task. The main reason I can think of is to transfer the data out of the system without the users' permission, which would be a violation of the users' privacy. > Profiles Interesting features, Steve. Most of these points cover bugs that we are aware of, and have discussed previously, though not necessarily in this group. However, the last one is new :) > ...how can we encourage cross-community knowledge exchange? This is a sub-question of "how can we encourage knowledge exchange?" From the research I have read, the answer to this is still largely unknown. However, there seem to be two main reasons people participate in public discussion forums: 1. People want answers to questions, and 2. People want prestige from answering. To encourage people to participate, make answers easy to find, and make prestige easy to gain :) As with all generalisations, this may not sit well with a particular group, but it is a good place to start thinking about the design of a group and a site.
Michael said: Member Directory An interesting feature, but I cannot clearly see your task. The main reason I can think of is to transfer the data out of the system without the users' permission, which would be a violation of the users' privacy. My response: This is a logical extension of your existing members list feature. Why have a public list for members in the first place? You've already chosen to display the list publicly for those not logged in while requiring logged in membership to view a profile. Obviously in a small group, folks probably know each other, but in a larger group names don't say enough. This is particularly true for international communities of practice. So with my Consult and Research public groups at http://groups.dowire.org my goal is to foster peer-to-peer exchange via the forum. Knowing "who's who" helps motivate potential posters to realize that the group matters. With online groups where people are paid/obligated to participate being motivated wouldn't be as much of a user task, but when you have volunteers, as a host you need to use tools creatively. Practically speaking, I was showing GroupServer/OGN to someone high up at Ashoka trying to pitch the idea that they could use the tool (I am one of a 1700 or so fellows around the world, 70 in the U.S.) and we could encourage its use in the projects of fellow. When I showed her the Members page, she said who are these people? I explained my idea for allowing people to *optionally* list additional information they share in their profile. Her reaction was why doesn't it do that already? As long as people are opting in to share information publicly and are informed of that, to display it isn't a violation of privacy. You might decide that publicity or public disclosure for those not logged in/Google is not in your interest so it might make sense to close the Members list to non-members or only display the columns when logged in. Steven Clift P.S. If GroupServer admin or team is a better place to outline better developed feature ideas let me know. As many of you know we have a laundry list of ideas - http://www.e-democracy.org/wiki/Groupserver_feature_ideas - many of which have already been incorporated into OGN and hopefully the next GPL release of GroupServer. Some ideas might be core feature ideas that help make OGN more competitive and you'll jump on them as your capacity allows and MOST are probably something that need to be funded by someone. Say, did you see this ... nice kudos for your efforts from Nancy White, the goddess of online communities: http://www.fullcirc.com/weblog/2007/03/steven-clifts-notes-saving-internet-10.htm
There are many valid points made in this thread, which I will post here at the end of the thread rather that at the start of the groupserver.org group thread as suggested by Michael. In relation to the thread topic, member directory profiles, the most difficult area to overcome is the extreme reluctance of members of the public (especially Australians) to submit profile information when they have very little, if any, control over what happens to that information. This reluctance is continually reinforced by the high profile of stories of the misuse of information on the Internet. Children and young adolescents in particularly are told repeatedly never to provide personal information which enables them to be identified and for personal contact to be made due to the dangers of pedophilia. Members of the public are continually warned of the dangers of submitting information through phishing emails in particular, but few understand the basis of a phishing emails. Anyone who uses an email address on the Internet for a longer period of time knows how much spam it attracts without understanding why. Thus the biggest difficulty as I see it is not the technical details of how information is sought, but the negativity towards submitting any profile information at all. People feel more comfortable in associating and submitting information to others whom they know. In online groups, they become comfortable by viewing and being associated with the posts, more so than the information in profiles. The points raised by Steven are valid. Online groups would function better if users could associate in compatible like minded groups in which all members felt comfortable to contribute. Profiles and key words do help in this direction, but the tone of postings is far more important. Thus the most important aspect of member profiles as I see it is to increase the comfort level of those who are considering submitting their information. A start is clear policy guidelines of how the information is to used. More important is confidence in the organization to whom you are submitting the information, from knowledge and a profile of the organization. Regards Richard Solly http://eforum.darebin.vic.gov.au/
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