Inviting People to Join a Group
Summary
- There are 20 posts — by 7 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Dan Randow at 2008 Dec 05 04:09 UTC
I am often asked "How do I invite people to my group?", so I have added this to the FAQ. http://onlinegroups.net/support/faq/#invitepeople In public groups, people can just join themselves. Whatever the privacy setting of the group, site and group administrators can invite people to join using the Group Admin "Add Members" features. (If you are going to "Add Members" however, it is a good idea to email people first, to let them know what to expect.)
cheers, Dan -- Dan Randow Projects Director OnlineGroups.Net ph +64-3-377-5377 +64-27-431-4928 Kenton Chmbrs, 190 Hereford St PO Box 739, Christchurch, 8140 Aotearoa (New Zealand) http://onlinegroups.net http://groupserver.org skype: vonrandow
sorry i could not find. is there a email i can send to friends with a link and with the link they can join?
anette
Hi Anette, > sorry i could not find. You have to be a Group Administrator to see the Group Admin link. If you are not already, you will have to ask the Site Administrator to make you a Group Administrator. > is there a email i can send to friends with a link > and with the link they can join? Just email them a link to the home page of the group. If you look at the home page of this group, http://onlinegroups.net/groups/ogn_admins for example, you will see a link that to "register and join" in the "Membership and Joining" section (you have to be logged out to see that). If you have more than one group on your site, it is better to email a link to the "Groups" page, like this one on our site. http://onlinegroups.net/groups/ This shows links to register and join all the public groups on the site.
Dan -- Dan Randow Projects Director OnlineGroups.Net ph +64-3-377-5377 +64-27-431-4928 Kenton Chmbrs, 190 Hereford St PO Box 739, Christchurch, 8140 Aotearoa (New Zealand) http://onlinegroups.net http://groupserver.org skype: vonrandow
why are you sending my nine year old sonemails ???????
----- Original Message ---- From: Dan Randow <email obscured>> To: <email obscured> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:02:34 AM Subject: Re: [OGN Admins] Inviting People to Join a Group Hi Anette, > sorry i could not find. You have to be a Group Administrator to see the Group Admin link. If you are not already, you will have to ask the Site Administrator to make you a Group Administrator. > is there a email i can send to friends with a link > and with the link they can join? Just email them a link to the home page of the group. If you look at the home page of this group, http://onlinegroups.net/groups/ogn_admins for example, you will see a link that to "register and join" in the "Membership and Joining" section (you have to be logged out to see that). If you have more than one group on your site, it is better to email a link to the "Groups" page, like this one on our site. http://onlinegroups.net/groups/ This shows links to register and join all the public groups on the site. Dan -- Dan Randow Projects Director OnlineGroups.Net ph +64-3-377-5377 +64-27-431-4928 Kenton Chmbrs, 190 Hereford St PO Box 739, Christchurch, 8140 Aotearoa (New Zealand) http://onlinegroups.net http://groupserver.org skype: vonrandow ----------------------------------------- Full text of this topic in OnlineGroups.Net Administrators: http://onlinegroups.net/r/topic/4idnyFQaKmgJ3cXFD7QngN To leave OnlineGroups.Net Administrators, email <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe OnlineGroups.Net Administrators is powered by OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
HELLO DAN thank you for your email. sorry i could not find i got on start page then i log in as hessenhexe then i can see groups and blog and i klick groups but in cannot find my group wennesnichtgeht and also i cannot find the button group admin. i only see your group:
onlinegroups.net regards anette thank you for help Sommertheater-kostenlos Orte bitte erfragen: 29.6.08, 12.7.08, 19.7.08, 26.7.08, 2.8.08, 9.8.08 Informationen ueber <email obscured> Kommunikationsgruppe kostenlos in Darmstadt alle 14 Tage z.B. 28.6.08 12.7.08 26.7.08 9.8.08 23.8.08 etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Randow" <email obscured>> To: "OnlineGroups.Net Administrators" <email obscured>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:01 AM Subject: [OGN Admins] Inviting People to Join a Group > > I am often asked "How do I invite people to my group?", so I have added > this to the FAQ. > http://onlinegroups.net/support/faq/#invitepeople > > In public groups, people can just join themselves. Whatever the privacy > setting of the group, site and group administrators can invite people to > join using the Group Admin "Add Members" features. (If you are going to > "Add Members" however, it is a good idea to email people first, to let > them know what to expect.) > > cheers, > > Dan > > -- > > Dan Randow > Projects Director > OnlineGroups.Net > ph +64-3-377-5377 +64-27-431-4928 > Kenton Chmbrs, 190 Hereford St > PO Box 739, Christchurch, 8140 > Aotearoa (New Zealand) > http://onlinegroups.net > http://groupserver.org > skype: vonrandow > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in OnlineGroups.Net Administrators: > http://onlinegroups.net/r/topic/4Cs4nPBexE5g0gKANRTBqP > > To leave OnlineGroups.Net Administrators, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > OnlineGroups.Net Administrators is powered by > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
hello thank you for email i dont understand what did i do wrong? anette from germany
Sommertheater-kostenlos Orte bitte erfragen: 29.6.08, 12.7.08, 19.7.08, 26.7.08, 2.8.08, 9.8.08 Informationen ueber <email obscured> Kommunikationsgruppe kostenlos in Darmstadt alle 14 Tage z.B. 28.6.08 12.7.08 26.7.08 9.8.08 23.8.08 etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Czacc_Tayylor" <email obscured>> To: <email obscured>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [OGN Admins] Inviting People to Join a Group > why are you sending my nine year old sonemails ??????? > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Dan Randow <email obscured>> > To: <email obscured> > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 4:02:34 AM > Subject: Re: [OGN Admins] Inviting People to Join a Group > > Hi Anette, > >> sorry i could not find. > > You have to be a Group Administrator to see the Group Admin link. If you > are not already, you will have to ask the Site Administrator to make you > a Group Administrator. > >> is there a email i can send to friends with a link >> and with the link they can join? > > Just email them a link to the home page of the group. If you look at the > home page of this group, > http://onlinegroups.net/groups/ogn_admins > for example, you will see a link that to "register and join" in the > "Membership and Joining" section (you have to be logged out to see that). > > If you have more than one group on your site, it is better to email a > link to the "Groups" page, like this one on our site. > http://onlinegroups.net/groups/ > This shows links to register and join all the public groups on the site. > > Dan > > -- > > Dan Randow > Projects Director > OnlineGroups.Net > ph +64-3-377-5377 +64-27-431-4928 > Kenton Chmbrs, 190 Hereford St > PO Box 739, Christchurch, 8140 > Aotearoa (New Zealand) > http://onlinegroups.net > http://groupserver.org > skype: vonrandow > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in OnlineGroups.Net Administrators: > http://onlinegroups.net/r/topic/4idnyFQaKmgJ3cXFD7QngN > > To leave OnlineGroups.Net Administrators, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > OnlineGroups.Net Administrators is powered by > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in OnlineGroups.Net Administrators: > http://onlinegroups.net/r/topic/5Ux3JFAavp30CHc2hfF3eI > > To leave OnlineGroups.Net Administrators, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > OnlineGroups.Net Administrators is powered by > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
hello thank you for email i made the mistake i was looking at the domain i found it at the subdomain i put in there email ads is this the right way?
anette Sommertheater-kostenlos Orte bitte erfragen: 29.6.08, 12.7.08, 19.7.08, 26.7.08, 2.8.08, 9.8.08 Informationen ueber <email obscured> Kommunikationsgruppe kostenlos in Darmstadt alle 14 Tage z.B. 28.6.08 12.7.08 26.7.08 9.8.08 23.8.08 etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Randow" <email obscured>> To: <email obscured>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [OGN Admins] Inviting People to Join a Group > Hi Anette, > >> sorry i could not find. > > You have to be a Group Administrator to see the Group Admin link. If you > are not already, you will have to ask the Site Administrator to make you > a Group Administrator. > >> is there a email i can send to friends with a link >> and with the link they can join? > > Just email them a link to the home page of the group. If you look at the > home page of this group, > http://onlinegroups.net/groups/ogn_admins > for example, you will see a link that to "register and join" in the > "Membership and Joining" section (you have to be logged out to see that). > > If you have more than one group on your site, it is better to email a > link to the "Groups" page, like this one on our site. > http://onlinegroups.net/groups/ > This shows links to register and join all the public groups on the site. > > Dan > > -- > > Dan Randow > Projects Director > OnlineGroups.Net > ph +64-3-377-5377 +64-27-431-4928 > Kenton Chmbrs, 190 Hereford St > PO Box 739, Christchurch, 8140 > Aotearoa (New Zealand) > http://onlinegroups.net > http://groupserver.org > skype: vonrandow > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in OnlineGroups.Net Administrators: > http://onlinegroups.net/r/topic/4idnyFQaKmgJ3cXFD7QngN > > To leave OnlineGroups.Net Administrators, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > OnlineGroups.Net Administrators is powered by > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
hello thank your for email how many mails are allowed to send in one day?
anette is this the email group of leaders of groups? Sommertheater-kostenlos Orte bitte erfragen: 29.6.08, 12.7.08, 19.7.08, 26.7.08, 2.8.08, 9.8.08 Informationen ueber <email obscured> Kommunikationsgruppe kostenlos in Darmstadt alle 14 Tage z.B. 28.6.08 12.7.08 26.7.08 9.8.08 23.8.08 etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Randow" <email obscured>> To: <email obscured>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [OGN Admins] Inviting People to Join a Group > Hi Anette, > >> sorry i could not find. > > You have to be a Group Administrator to see the Group Admin link. If you > are not already, you will have to ask the Site Administrator to make you > a Group Administrator. > >> is there a email i can send to friends with a link >> and with the link they can join? > > Just email them a link to the home page of the group. If you look at the > home page of this group, > http://onlinegroups.net/groups/ogn_admins > for example, you will see a link that to "register and join" in the > "Membership and Joining" section (you have to be logged out to see that). > > If you have more than one group on your site, it is better to email a > link to the "Groups" page, like this one on our site. > http://onlinegroups.net/groups/ > This shows links to register and join all the public groups on the site. > > Dan > > -- > > Dan Randow > Projects Director > OnlineGroups.Net > ph +64-3-377-5377 +64-27-431-4928 > Kenton Chmbrs, 190 Hereford St > PO Box 739, Christchurch, 8140 > Aotearoa (New Zealand) > http://onlinegroups.net > http://groupserver.org > skype: vonrandow > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in OnlineGroups.Net Administrators: > http://onlinegroups.net/r/topic/4idnyFQaKmgJ3cXFD7QngN > > To leave OnlineGroups.Net Administrators, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > OnlineGroups.Net Administrators is powered by > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
Hi Anette: On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 11:54 +0200, hessenhexe wrote: > how many mails are allowed to send in one day? Currently the limit is set to 20 emails in 2 days, per person, per group. Our limits are not intended to impose restrictions on our users, but rather to prevent abuse by spammers. We intend to review these restrictions from time to time, particularly if they are annoying to our users! > is this the email group of leaders of groups? That's correct -- this is the group for group administrators to ask any questions they might have about running their OnlineGroups.Net site. Thanks for your questions, Richard Waid Technical Lead OnlineGroups.Net
hello richard thank your for email
etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Waid" <email obscured>> To: <email obscured>> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 1:50 AM Subject: Re: [OGN Admins] Inviting People to Join a Group > Hi Anette: > > On Sat, 2008-06-21 at 11:54 +0200, hessenhexe wrote: >> how many mails are allowed to send in one day? > > Currently the limit is set to 20 emails in 2 days, per person, per > group. i dont understand can one member send 20 or all members together? Our limits are not intended to impose restrictions on our users, > but rather to prevent abuse by spammers. We intend to review these > restrictions from time to time, particularly if they are annoying to our > users! > we talk about this in our group because in the past we had much more mails >> is this the email group of leaders of groups? > > That's correct -- this is the group for group administrators to ask any > questions they might have about running their OnlineGroups.Net site. > can you answer me same questions? > > Thanks for your questions, > > Richard Waid > Technical Lead > OnlineGroups.Net > > here are more question. can i as member hessenhexe join other emailgroups at your homepage? are there groups mailing one mail by day or more about family problems relation problems mobbing relation problems drugs and so on? if yes how can i find them? how many members have this admin group? i wish you a happy sunday anette > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in OnlineGroups.Net Administrators: > http://onlinegroups.net/r/topic/78Dd55MbO9ilySLeXZTJiA > > To leave OnlineGroups.Net Administrators, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > OnlineGroups.Net Administrators is powered by > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
Anette: My apologies for the delay in responding to your questions. On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 12:29 +0200, hessenhexe wrote: > > Currently the limit is set to 20 emails in 2 days, per person, per > > group. > > i dont understand > > can one member send 20 or all members together? Each member can send 20 emails in 2 days. We may raise this limit in the near future. > Our limits are not intended to impose restrictions on our users, > > but rather to prevent abuse by spammers. We intend to review these > > restrictions from time to time, particularly if they are annoying to our > > users! > > we talk about this in our group because in the past we had much more mails Thanks for the feedback, we will certainly take it on-board. > can i as member hessenhexe join other emailgroups at your homepage? Yes, assuming the groups are public. You can login with your email address at any onlinegroups.net site, or into the main onlinegroups.net site.
> are there groups > mailing one mail by day or more > > about > > family problems > relation problems > mobbing > relation problems > drugs > > and so on? > > if yes > how can i find them? At the moment we have no central index of all groups, but I do not currently know of a site which addresses those problems. You may wish to start one and promote it :) > how many members have this admin group? Currently 256 members. Thanks for your questions. Best regards, Richard Waid OnlineGroups.Net
If you have questions about adding people to your groups, please ask them by replying to this email. Here is a quick summary of the process for joining groups. The process for joining a group depends on the privacy setting of the group. In Public groups, people can join themselves; the group admin can also invite people to join. In Private groups, the group admin can invite people to join; people can contact the group admin and request to join the group. In Secret groups, the only way to join is to be invited by the group admin. In all cases, the person joining the group must respond to an email that is sent to them, to confirm that they wish to join the group. Although this step can be perceived as a barrier to joining, it achieves some important things. 1: It makes sure that each invitee explicitly agrees to join the group. (At OnlineGroups.Net it is extremely important to us that our groups are not used to send email to people who have not agreed to that.) 2: It makes sure that the invitee can receive email from our site. (Most people use OnlineGroups.Net groups via email, so if they can't get the registration email, they probably can't get the other emails.) 3: It gives the invitee an opportunity to create a profile and set a password. (The strength of OnlineGroups.Net is that you can use it via email _and_ the web. This gets people started with web access.) We do not provide a way to "just add" people to groups, as we could not prevent this from being used to add people who do not want to join a group.
cheers, Dan
Dan, Your points are great and make things very clear. One issue I perceive is when group membership is mandated by the organisation the person is a member of. In this case 1 - the person doesn't need to agree to be a member, because of their organisational role they have to be 2 - fair enough but probably all the members will belong to the same email domain organisation.co.nz so if it works for the Admin it will work for the members 3 - yes but in many cases the primary profile will be in another system e.g. intranet I realise this is a standard use case for an organisation using online groups - but a non standard use case from the historical perspective of online groups. Could others who might fall into this use case category reply to this post so that Dan and his team can see how useful catering to this situation may be ?
DorjeM -----Original Message----- From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On Behalf Of Dan Randow Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:54 AM To: OnlineGroups.Net Administrators Subject: Re: [OGN Admins] Inviting People to Join a Group If you have questions about adding people to your groups, please ask them by replying to this email. Here is a quick summary of the process for joining groups. The process for joining a group depends on the privacy setting of the group. In Public groups, people can join themselves; the group admin can also invite people to join. In Private groups, the group admin can invite people to join; people can contact the group admin and request to join the group. In Secret groups, the only way to join is to be invited by the group admin. In all cases, the person joining the group must respond to an email that is sent to them, to confirm that they wish to join the group. Although this step can be perceived as a barrier to joining, it achieves some important things. 1: It makes sure that each invitee explicitly agrees to join the group. (At OnlineGroups.Net it is extremely important to us that our groups are not used to send email to people who have not agreed to that.) 2: It makes sure that the invitee can receive email from our site. (Most people use OnlineGroups.Net groups via email, so if they can't get the registration email, they probably can't get the other emails.) 3: It gives the invitee an opportunity to create a profile and set a password. (The strength of OnlineGroups.Net is that you can use it via email _and_ the web. This gets people started with web access.) We do not provide a way to "just add" people to groups, as we could not prevent this from being used to add people who do not want to join a group. cheers, Dan ----------------------------------------- Full text of this topic in OnlineGroups.Net Administrators: http://onlinegroups.net/r/topic/3k5im64TqPsSwUtBHxg98T To leave OnlineGroups.Net Administrators, email <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe Start your own free groups and site with OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
Hi Dorje, You are quite right that OnlineGroups.Net can be used entirely within a single organisation, which changes the requirements somewhat. We ourselves provide sites that work like that, and in a variety of different custom ways. In cases like this, we work with our clients to make the sites work for the particular requirements.
cheers, Dan
Hi Dan, I would like to request an "add" function, as in Yahoo. (see the pasted bit right at the end of this email I think it is an add function.) I understand and agree with the three points in your email Dan. There are many situations I would invite rather than add for those reasons. There are some other factors that sometimes outweigh these. It was a great feature when you had it for trusted admins, getting groups going since has been much harder. Unverified members are difficult to engage. This is our worst case, and we have followed up with invites and emails. These are people who agreed to join verbally. I quote from the website: "Manage the Members of xxxxx Online Group There are 32 members — of which 11 members are unverified — in this group. (Add new members.) " I am aware of the problem in other groups. I know you are reluctant to make this change, but I am right now faced with yet another new group where I think it will help, perhaps make or break it. I will put the case carefully. The reasons for an add members function I see are: "Its all in the warm-up" The Add feature helps the flow. I think this should be high on the list of principles in a groupserver, even though sometimes principles conflict. The warm-up I am thinking of is that people immediately see welcoming messages and interesting content. This will get them to participate. Welcoming a member when joined. Once I add a person I like to welcome them. This is best on the day we spoke and they are "hot". I like to do the welcoming and encouragement of others to welcome at the time I enter them, not when they verify, when I may not have the time to do this. When I could do this I asked members to welcome them, so they get a swag of welcomes. This gets the group going well. In the case of new groups... After a face-to-face meeting promoting the group and the committee (say) agreeing to work in a group, there is a time when people are more of the group. Once I have added them I can then confidently begin to frame the group, welcome people, invite them to post introductions. This helps techno phobic people belong. They instantly "get it". An invite does not have this impact Starting time for the new group If one or two don't verify some groups can't start. Or if they do it is a poor start Preventing spill over into "reply-to all" Sometimes a group has important material to go to all, this was the impetus for starting a group recently. When there are members who have not yet verified, or if the group seems flakey to others, they will revert to reply to all with attachments. Then others respond to that, and the container is lost. This has happened in three groups I know of. Asking people to agree twice is an irritant. If I have already had a discussion and a person has agreed to join, further requests and invites are redundant. Organisational requirement DorjeM's point applies to most groups I create. "1 - the person doesn't need to agree to be a member, because of their organisational role they have to be" For example being part of a committee that does a lot of its work online. As for abuse of the function, perhaps you could restrict it to some. Or do as Yahoo does warn and deactivate accounts in case of abuse. Perhaps add a link in the footer to report abuse. Regulating openness is better than closing doors. See Wikipedia for example. What do others think? Cheers, Walter // From Yahoo : NOTE: If you want your members to have access to the group web site, we strongly recommend that you use the Invite Members feature. The Add Members feature allows you to automatically add people to your group's mailing list. You can add 100 members to your group per day. (Please use the Add Members feature responsibly. Abuse can lead to inactivation of your account.) Enter email addresses. You may also enter the member's name after their email address. Please use a space to separate the member's name and email address. Please enter one email address per line. For example: <email obscured> James Smith <email obscured> Patty Klein //
Hi again, I have a technical question: If I invite people who are already site members do they get added automatically? It is not immediately obvious what happens.
Walter
Walter, If you invite someone who is already a member of *any* OnlineGroups.Net site then the member is sent an invitation. The invitation to an existing member contains a single link, which takes the user to a page that lists *all* of his or her invitations. I discuss this more in the post below http://onlinegroups.net/r/post/2ppIH4B4H9qyCpCS9ebsl7
Walter, I'll add to Michael's post about adding existing sites members to new groups, and respond to the points you raise about the invitation process vs a "just add" feature. INVITING EXISTING SITE MEMBERS Michael is right that the invitation process works well for existing site members http://onlinegroups.net/r/post/4G3cVWh6YOqwGkXq434kL1 but there is more to this. Unfortunately, there are problems with the members page, manage members page, and email notifications that affect the joining process from a group admin's point of view. We are painfully aware of these problems. Unfortunately they are symptoms of bigger problems that we do not expect to have solved until February next year. In the case of inviting new users (those who do not have existing profiles on any of the sites on our servers), the group Members page is broken in that it shows these people as group members, even when they have not yet accepted an invitation. The Manage Members page shows these people as "unverified" which is closer to the truth. As group admin, you will get two emails to say that the group member has joined (the first of which is incorrect as all that has happened is that they've been invited). In the case of inviting existing members of your site (and those who have a profile on any of the sites on our servers), the group Members page functions correctly by not showing shows these people as group members, until they have accepted your invitation. The Manage Members page is broken in that it does not show these people at all, until they accept your invitation. As group admin, you only get the email to say that the group member has joined when they have accepted your invitation. INVITING VS JUST ADDING USERS Our business is helping you to start a site and start groups where people join and post. The reason we don't "just add" people to a group is (1) that we don't know that it will make it easier for people to join and post, and (2) we do know that it can cause problems. Before we can solve this problem, we need to know more about the cause. Can you give us some data on _why_ people are not accepting your invitations? I can think of three reasons for people not accepting invitations. 1: They don't get the invitation email, because either there was error in the email address, the email got trapped in a spam filter, or they did not check their email. In this case, regardless of their motivation, they simply can't join. A "just add" feature would not help, except perhaps in the "I'm away but join me up and I'll look through all the email when I get back" case. This last case is addressed by the web archive. Not only does it support catching up on email you missed while away (plenty of people turn email _off_ while they're away), it also enables catching up on posts and files added before you even joined. In cases where the participant is not sufficiently "hot" to participate, this feature can easily backfire, by creating an off-putting amount of email or worse, by increasing the risk of the posts being marked as spam. In the more general case, you as admin may think that the group member has joined and is getting posts when they are not. I think that in this case, it's better that you know they are not getting the posts. 2: They get the invitation email, but do not have the technical ability (I'll include confidence and affinity in that) to know what to do with it. For people who do not have the skills to click a link and set a password, online groups are probably not a useful way of interacting. No matter how motivated they are to participate, they are going to need some help other than getting a lot of email (a frequent cause of "get me out of here" posts to a group). 3: They get the invitation email, and know what to do with it, but don't want to join. In this case, they are simply not "hot" enough to join the group, so it's better that they don't. Again, there is the risk that people will mark posts from your group as spam. Posts marked as spam in services like Hotmail, Yahoo! Mail and Gmail put the integrity of our servers at risk, potentially affecting everybody on our system.
Dan
Hi Dan, I presume that means no. It does sound like the case is closed. I don't think you quite got my points and we have not yet heard from others. More discussion needed IMO. Warm wishes Walter
On 5/12/2008, at 1:06 PM, "Dan Randow" <email obscured>> wrote: > Walter, > > I'll add to Michael's post about adding existing sites members to > new groups, and respond to the points you raise about the invitation > process vs a "just add" feature. > > INVITING EXISTING SITE MEMBERS > > Michael is right that the invitation process works well for existing > site members > http://onlinegroups.net/r/post/4G3cVWh6YOqwGkXq434kL1 > but there is more to this. Unfortunately, there are problems with > the members page, manage members page, and email notifications that > affect the joining process from a group admin's point of view. We > are painfully aware of these problems. Unfortunately they are > symptoms of bigger problems that we do not expect to have solved > until February next year. > > In the case of inviting new users (those who do not have existing > profiles on any of the sites on our servers), the group Members page > is broken in that it shows these people as group members, even when > they have not yet accepted an invitation. The Manage Members page > shows these people as "unverified" which is closer to the truth. As > group admin, you will get two emails to say that the group member > has joined (the first of which is incorrect as all that has happened > is that they've been invited). > > In the case of inviting existing members of your site (and those who > have a profile on any of the sites on our servers), the group > Members page functions correctly by not showing shows these people > as group members, until they have accepted your invitation. The > Manage Members page is broken in that it does not show these people > at all, until they accept your invitation. As group admin, you only > get the email to say that the group member has joined when they have > accepted your invitation. > > > INVITING VS JUST ADDING USERS > > Our business is helping you to start a site and start groups where > people join and post. > > The reason we don't "just add" people to a group is (1) that we > don't know that it will make it easier for people to join and post, > and (2) we do know that it can cause problems. Before we can solve > this problem, we need to know more about the cause. Can you give us > some data on _why_ people are not accepting your invitations? > > I can think of three reasons for people not accepting invitations. > > 1: They don't get the invitation email, because either there was > error in the email address, the email got trapped in a spam filter, > or they did not check their email. In this case, regardless of their > motivation, they simply can't join. > > A "just add" feature would not help, except perhaps in the "I'm away > but join me up and I'll look through all the email when I get back" > case. This last case is addressed by the web archive. Not only does > it support catching up on email you missed while away (plenty of > people turn email _off_ while they're away), it also enables > catching up on posts and files added before you even joined. In > cases where the participant is not sufficiently "hot" to > participate, this feature can easily backfire, by creating an off- > putting amount of email or worse, by increasing the risk of the > posts being marked as spam. > > In the more general case, you as admin may think that the group > member has joined and is getting posts when they are not. I think > that in this case, it's better that you know they are not getting > the posts. > > > 2: They get the invitation email, but do not have the technical > ability (I'll include confidence and affinity in that) to know what > to do with it. For people who do not have the skills to click a link > and set a password, online groups are probably not a useful way of > interacting. No matter how motivated they are to participate, they > are going to need some help other than getting a lot of email (a > frequent cause of "get me out of here" posts to a group). > > > 3: They get the invitation email, and know what to do with it, but > don't want to join. In this case, they are simply not "hot" enough > to join the group, so it's better that they don't. Again, there is > the risk that people will mark posts from your group as spam. > > > Posts marked as spam in services like Hotmail, Yahoo! Mail and Gmail > put the integrity of our servers at risk, potentially affecting > everybody on our system. > > Dan > > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in OnlineGroups.Net Administrators: > http://onlinegroups.net/r/topic/3XfcGpl6kL2XUfju0PeebR > > To leave OnlineGroups.Net Administrators, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > Start your own free groups and site with > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
Hi Walter, I am sorry that I did not address all the points you raised. I'll do that now. I did not intend my response to mean "no" or "case closed" at all, and I welcome further discussion. I am particularly interested in hearing from you or anyone who can provide data as to _why_ some people are not accepting invitations. We can not solve this problem until we know what it is. Walter, the points that you raise all seem to relate to case #2 in my list. You do not mention people who don't get the invitation email, or people who don't want to join. I'll assume you are solely referring to people who want to participate but not enough to cross the technical barrier of accepting an invitation. To be clear, for users with no existing profile, that process is as follows. Open an email from the Group Admin who sent the invitation. Clicking the accept invitation link in that email. View a "Set Password" web page. Enter a password twice. Click "Set". It could be that the complexity of this process is the problem. Perhaps we should remove the "set password" step. (Walter, you make no mention of introducing new group members to the web interface. The above process lands them logged in on the group home page with a list of the latest topics, who has posted, and the keywords. Even Yahoo! "strongly recommends" that you use the invitation process rather than the "add".) We just don't know what to fix yet because we don't know enough about who is having trouble, and where. Now, back to your original post. In "Its all in the warm-up", I think you are saying that "just add" gets people to participate because they immediately see welcoming messages and interesting content. I agree that messages like that do warm people up to participating. Welcoming and interesting messages, however are by no means guaranteed. Admitting that I don't have data on this, I suspect that in as many if not more cases, a lot of email simply overwhelms a novice Internet user. We do have data that the most commonly used feature in Outlook is "Delete". "Mark as Junk" is often right next to "Delete". In "Welcoming a member when joined" you say that you like to welcome a user when they are "hot". What I would like to understand is why a user who is hot to join the group does not click the link to accept your invitation. You go on to say that you like to welcome them when you choose for them to join, not when they choose to join. I understand that this makes your job easier (I share this challenge), but do not understand how welcoming the person in your time, and not theirs warms them up to participation. Welcomes from other group members are going to arrive in their own good time, in either case. "In the case of new groups", "Starting time for the new group" and "Preventing spill over into reply-to all" all relate to the delay in starting a new group that is caused by the fact the people enter the group over time, or don't enter at all. This is a really difficult problem that affects all group-based social media when n-1 is not a viable number of group members. In fact this problem is not unique to online media, the word "quorum" was invented for it. If some people are not joining the group, when there is one simple step required, then maybe the group is not viable. I do not see how technology can actually solve a social problem like this. Again, the solution you propose for people whose motivation to participate is dubious, yois to make them start receiving emails from the group. While I can see that this will work in some cases, I am concerned that in a far greater number of cases, it will have a negative effect. The current system of invitations does not prevent people from seeing the posts made before they join. It also doesn't prevent the group admin keeping in touch with the group members by email or phone, and helping them engage with the group. I do a lot of this work myself. You say that "Asking people to agree twice is an irritant." I agree, but it is a relatively small one, and one that emphasises respect for the right to choose. It also serves the other purposes mentioned above. As you say, in some cases, it is an organisational requirement to join certain groups. In cases where online group participation is explicitly mandatory, we do fail to support this. Within organisations, however, surely members would be more likely to accept an invitation than in other cases? And if they do not, then surely that is a matter either for performance management, or for improving the engagement and launch process? And if they do not have the chance to accept or decline an invitation, then how does joining them anyway warm them up to participating? Walter, you raise the matter of Trusted Admins. We removed that when we introduced the current registration system, which removed most of the barriers to joining sites and groups. Support requests relating to registration have, since then, fallen to almost nothing. Trusted admins is possible but not trivial to administer. If we really need it, we'll have to bring it back. The audit trails that we are in the process of introducing will help to measure "trust" by showing users exactly what has been done to their profiles, but we're not there yet. You are right that Yahoo! provides a "just add" feature but have you seen their registration process? Because they have so many services linked to a Yahoo! ID, it's not trivial. We have the luxury of being able to make our registration process much simpler. We do not have the luxury of being able to take the risk of a "trusted until proven guilty" policy. The impact of being falsely identified as a source of spam is simply too high to take risks with. Finally, we are not alone in requiring explicit acceptance of invitations. Facebook, Flickr, MySpace, Bebo, LinkedIn and many others all do. Walter, I hope this helps to demonstrate that we care about this problem and think about it. We have got lots of priorities for improving our interface but we're always open to altering those, if it makes it easier to start sites and groups, invite people and start posting.
Dan
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